Good/Bad

Submitted by Hilary Cullen Budwey on Tuesday, 5/3/2011, at 3:13 AM

Edit: After a semester of thinking about music, I am still unsure as to what constitutes "good" or "bad" music. I am also still inclined to think about it teleologically. Our discussion on profundity seemed to me to be very similar to our discussion on good and bad music. Perhaps we are simply stating preferences... perhaps we are muddling our terms... perhaps there is an objective "good" for music. Although I don't have any new answers, I have added a few more "good" pieces for you all to enjoy.

I originally thought "oh good! choosing a bad piece will be so simple! there is so much bad music out there!", but the task of actually sitting down and finding one was rather difficult. As it turns out, I have either seriously over-estimated the amount of awful music or I have had to repress the horrible "pieces" I have heard.

But this piece- "Ade! Ich Muss Nun Gehen", by Friedrich Nietzsche- sprang to mind. On the surface, there isn't much to point to as to what makes the piece bad. Nothing sticks out as horribly offensive: no poorly-handled dissonances, no random fragments of melody, and no awkward rhythms.  A casual listen-through might even spare the song some dignity. But something about the song is... annoying. While trying to put together my thoughts, I listened to the song on loop and wanted to pull my hair out. Nothing breaks any "rules", the form is predictable... too predictable. As Levitin points out, there is a sweet spot between too simple and too difficult. This song is much, much to simple. There is nothing surprising and unexpected to catch the listener and draw them in.

And there is also something vaguely comical about it. For example, the thumping, plodding descending bass line at around 11 seconds is reminiscent of a portly older man trying to make his way down the stairs- neither elegant nor subtle. The exclamation at 40 seconds makes sense musically, but seems forced.

Overall, the piece is technically "correct", but lacks grace, elegance, and subtle points of interest. As Berlioz so aptly termed it, this piece is "insipid" and "innocently stupid".

The good yielded a much larger crop, so I have posted many songs for your aural pleasure, which you may listen to should you feel so inclined.

In order to give a good piece the respect that it deserves, I chose a rather short piece, the Prologue from the Prophetiae Sibyllarum, by Orlando di Lasso, to play in class. This piece, unlike the last, seems to ignore a lot of rules- like, for instance, general tonality (his works were pre-tonal, but I speak of the "rules" of our modern, tonal ears). Yet, even in ignoring these rules, the piece presents a delightful challenge to the listener and can still sound beautiful to a less experienced music-lover. But the piece isn't just a jumble of rule-breaking tricks- it makes sense. The final cadence is wonderfully satisfying.

The di Lasso piece provides a challenge, it is interesting, and it musically satisfies. But beyond that, I am stumped as to how to explain why it's good.

I am tempted to think of good and bad music teleologically. To think that music has a purpose and that any music that fails to reach that goal is "bad" and any music that succeeds is "good" (and that there are varying degrees of goodness and badness depending on how close or far it is from that goal). For instance, a chair that has no sitting surface is a bad chair. But what would such a telos be for music? The best I can think of is that the telos is to unfold an experience of the beauty and/or the sublime. But then music seems to be just a tool and then I am left unsatisfied with such an approach.

Tony Andrews Good/Bad Music

Submitted by Anthony John Andrews on Tuesday, 2/8/2011, at 2:05 PM

Good Music- John Butler - Talented technical 12-string guitarist

Bad Music - Black Eyed Peas - Terrible Pop Cover of an already corny song. Bad Vocals, bad music.  

Gravity Rides Everything - Modest Mouse. Original Vocals, Original lyrics, original sound. 

Good and Bad Music

Submitted by Farris D. Hassan on Tuesday, 2/8/2011, at 1:44 PM

 


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Beirut-%20The%20Canals%20of%20Our%20City "Canals of Our City" by Beirut    Beirut-%20The%20Canals%20of%20Our%20City

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Edgard%20Var%C3%A8se%20-%20Octandre%20%2813%29 "Octandre" by Edgard Varese  Edgard%20Var%C3%A8se%20-%20Octandre%20%2813%29

 

What makes a song good? Before answering this question, I believe we first must answer the question: how shall we determine the qualities that make a song good? I approach this as I would any concept. How would we determine what qualities make an object a house? We examine many objects that people call houses, determine what qualities those objects have in common, resolve contradictions, and produce an account with an eye towards keeping as much of common opinion as possible.

After examining the many songs that appear good to me, I found two commonalities:

First, the song affects the emotions of the listener in a way that achieves his goals. It’s not the case that the only songs that are good are those that make people happy, or any single emotion. For people call songs good that make them sad, happy, angry, frightened, etc. At the same time, I wouldn’t say that any song that has an emotional effect on the listener is good, because there are songs that annoy people, such as Octandre by Varese, and they call them bad songs. Therefore, I settle on the formulation, a good song affects the emotion of the listener in a way that achieves the listener’s goals. When I compose, I create according to my gut instinct. I choose between different potential melodies based on how each affects me emotionally. I don’t deduce whether a melody is better than another. I judge it so in a instantaneous, unreflective, non-linguistic manner. When I’m composing for the public, my gut instinct is informed by the goals of my audience. It is not so, when I’m composing only for myself.

Second, a good song manifests human excellence. In other words, it is not the case that any ordinary person could create a song like it. Its creation required enormous skill. It impresses. It earns our admiration. The difficult that the creator traversed amazes us.

When I listen to Octandre by Edgard Varese, I want to turn it off, to flee, to never listen to it again; it annoys me because it is not pleasing, because it rejects the rules of classical music that have made songs in its style compelling to listeners for centuries, because it does not elicit an emotion that serves one of my goals. If I loved the flouting of rules in and of itself, then I might call the song good, for it would serve one of my goals. But such is not the case.

“Canals of Our City” by Beirut is a good song because it is impressively formulated to create a mood congenial with the listener. The ukulele intro sets the mood—a mood that is, from the G chord (I), buoyant, yet, from the Dm (v) chord, pensive. Its speed is stately, though its mood is humble, pensive, connected with the surroundings in beatitude and wonderment. It has a walking, intoxicating gait. That is the song’s Idea. The walking, intoxicating gait exudes through rhythmic and tonal symbolism—through the ukulele’s constant rhythm accenting the 1 and 3 beats and ornamenting the 2 and 4 beats, through the I-v chords’ creating an air of pensive transport, through the drums’ constant, walking rhythm, through the trumpet’s long, enchanting notes, and the accordion’s pulsing notes.

 

 

Edgard Varèse - Octandre (13)

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Beirut- The Canals of Our City

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Disturbing and Comfortable

Submitted by Joseph T. Kelly on Tuesday, 2/8/2011, at 9:25 AM

I found Sapolsky's investigation into the time windows of new taste experiences compelling. In explaining how we continue to listen to the music of our teenage years - a point also well made by Levitin - in part because we "crave familiarity" and want to maintain a sense of identity across the years. Turning this logic around, music as a means to identity preservation can also explain why some music is "bad." This is the primary reason that I have chosen Disturbed's "Down with the Sickness "(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09LTT0xwdfw) as my example of "bad music." I played football in high school, and I used the anger that fuels a lot of metal to pump me up for games. This type of music played into the aggressiveness and anger that I have since tried to separate myself from. Additionally, there are characteristics of the music itself that I could describe as "bad." It is loud and grating, repetitive, contrived, and commercially driven.

There are many reasons why I think Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJNyQfAprY) is an example of "good music."  As an album, The Wall - sometimes considered a rock opera - is primarily Roger Water's creation, reflecting on his own life from his father's early death in WW2 and life with a single mother to the "empty spaces" and drug use brought on by fame. As such, the song is brimming with sincerity. However, I think the main reasons that I like Pink Floyd are more contingent and personal. Levitin talks about how musical taste can be a way of "externalizing the bond" of a social group. I first listened to this song when I was 12 with 3 of my best friends at a summer camp. Our counselor - your typical college stoner - played the song non-stop and we grew to love it. However, unlike "Down with the Sickness,"Pink Floyd has remained one of my personal favorites by keeping its message and emotional range in sync with my growing and changing identity. For example, I am a member of Students for Justice in Palestine and Roger Waters recently released a version of "We Shall Overcome" directed at the people of Palestine.

The Good and The Bad, Yamira S.

Submitted by Yamira C. Serret on Tuesday, 2/8/2011, at 4:34 AM

My first example of ‘good music’ comes from Shpongle’s “Nothing Is Something worth Doing”. The song travels for me; it pushes forward with a gentle rippling of instruments I can’t place and expands with volume and the layering of sounds the longer it plays. I think it has an incredibly calm drive and when the hang (Hahn) drum enters the piece I imagine it stepping into and filling a mystical space completely. The other instruments even seem to quiet for its show. The section of the song where the hang is given a solo is really touching and I feel like it’s given a real intelligence by the musician who plays it so well (the notes themselves sound like they’re floating underwater). That said, I chose this song because it’s filled with a variety of sounds that don’t sound like they’re competing with one another or sloppily thrown together. There’s an intelligent weaving in and out of instruments and a unique movement to the piece that blends the Eastern with an alien trance. For me, the hang describes a fall and lift of attitude that transports the listener into a truly contemplative space. Such music, the kind that has the ability to induce such pensive, out-of-body experiences, has a better chance of being considered ‘good’ versus others that do not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tow8WBuX1wc&feature=related

 

As for something truly dissonant, I introduce to you Autechre’s “Gantz Graf”. I’ll safely say that it’s incredibly grating “music” that will find no vacancy in my (let alone anyone’s) music library. The structure is off, just completely unorganized and it’s difficult to follow but the piece moves in erratic directions. There’s little intelligence given to whatever makes such soulless sounds and one grows not tired so much as angry by the endless traffic of unrelated sounds. Its absolute disorder. It’s almost intentionally infuriating since it sounds to me as if the song is yelling at its listener. Music that seems to have no respect for the enjoyment of its audience is what I’d like to call “bad music”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfwD05XA2YQ

Good and Bad Music

Submitted by Brian J. Kim on Tuesday, 2/8/2011, at 2:49 AM

Not sure why, but this isn't letting me upload files. So, I'm settling for the youtube versions. Click on the song titles for the link.

Good: Under the Bridge – Red Hot Chili Peppers

When I thought about my choice of Under the Bridge by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, the first thing that came to mind was that this song will probably mean something different to me than to other people in the class because I’m actually from Los Angeles. When I hear this song, I can almost see the streets of downtown L.A. at night. Listening to it makes me feel like I’m actually driving down a street back home, looking at shadows cast by the city lights. I have actually never watched the music video for this song, and I hope I never do, since I have my own music video for it in my mind. I feel the song still has a lot of emotion in it even if you aren’t from L.A. though. The depression that Anthony Kiedis talks about is very clear, and the feelings of loneliness are very powerful in this song.

Bad: Only Girl (In the World) – Rihanna

I chose this song for a simple reason: It sounds like she’s yelling at me with all her demands. Now, this isn’t exactly a critique of form or structure, but that’s basically why I dislike this song.  I wouldn’t care if it had incredibly innovative musical methods (which I’m assuming it does not; I wouldn’t know since I’ve never actually listened to the whole thing before because I always change the radio station or otherwise stop listening) or if it stuck “the right balance between simplicity and complexity.” I don’t like how she’s yelling her demands me, and I think I’m not the only guy in the world that feels this way (sorry, had to fit that last bit in).

samia's not so/good music

Submitted on Tuesday, 2/8/2011, at 1:07 AM

Good

"Upular," a remix by Pogo, is a work made up of sound excerpts - mostly dialogue - from the film "Up" set to a simple percussive beat. It is a novelty, but that does not preclude it from being good music. The piece is impressive because it is music composed largely from non-music. Yet, it still has most (all?) the features we typically associate with western music: a theme, an A A' B A structure, melody, rhythm, etc. It has a catchy tune, but is still innovative. It is technically impressive -- the arranger had to sift through the entire film to find sounds and phrases that form appealing musical phrases and fit together in a certain key. It may not have much depth or "truth" unto itself -- Frith might criticize it for this reason -- but it does evoke emotions or feelings of a sentimental film. Though, in broadening our traditional conception of music, it does challenge us to rethink our own definitions of music.
The piece takes a medium with which the listener/viewer is familiar and places it in an entirely new context while still retaining the familiar qualities (the video helps) of the original.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2yt1ooLQGo

Not So Good

Art Garfunkel sings "The 59th Bridge Street Song (Feelin' Groovy)" with his young son after the break-up of Simon & Garfunkel. The song, written by Paul Simon, is (super) good; the performance of it is not. The performance seems to rely largely on its fan base and its appreciation of the original song, and the timing makes it all a bit too gimmicky. I would characterize this as lacking in Frith's categories of truth, taste, and intelligence.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHEKrIJqPIk

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

Submitted by Zachary I. Bleemer on Monday, 2/7/2011, at 11:46 PM

I chose to play Dave Matthews Band's Ants Marching as my example of good music. The band is full of incredible musicians, which best comes out towards the end in an electric violin solo, but really what I like about the song is an association it carries to a leadership weekend I led for underclassmen at my high school- it was a really wonderful weekend, and this song played into the message's climax late Saturday afternoon- since then listening to the song has always brought me back to that time. I'm no music lover- I rarely listen to it, just not finding the time, and although I do have iTunes  (although no music player of any kind), even my computer only has 13 songs on it, all of which have particular meanings hearkening back to different times in my life, leading to my liking them. I think this is what makes for good music- connections to goodness of other kinds.

 

As bad music, I chose The Fishhead Song. It's annoying. It's meaningless and purposeless. But mostly, it was the song my best childhood friend would sing whenever there was a free moment that could possibly be filled with the annoyingness that fourth grade boys could be characterized by, and it's badness was defined by its purpose. Fortunately, it's only two-and-a-half minutes long- the torture need only last so long...

 

There's no ugliness in music. I don't think. Actually, I'd like to talk about that. Although really, that part of my title was just for show.

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