TRANSCRIPT
Catherine Ciepiela:
Welcome everyone, and thank you for being here. I'm Cathy Ciepiela, professor of Russian and chair of the Russian Department at Amherst College. It's a rare honor for me to introduce this afternoon's speaker, renowned Ukrainian human rights lawyer, civil society leader, and activist, Oleksandra Matviichuk.
Ms. Matviichuk leads the nonprofit Center for Civil Liberties, the Ukrainian Human Rights Organization that was a co-recipient of the 2022 Nobel Peace Prize. The other recipients were the Russian NGO, Manuel and Russian opposition Member [inaudible 00:00:49].
Ms. Matviichuk has worked with CCL since its founding in 2007 to promote human rights legislation, provide public oversight of law enforcement agencies and the judiciary, and foster democracy in Ukraine and other member states of the organization for security and cooperation in Europe. This last organization is the world's largest regional security organization, including 57 nations in North America, Europe, and Asia.
Ms. Matviichuk also coordinates the work of Euromaidan SOS, a grassroots legal assistance initiative created in response to the violent dispersal of a peaceful student demonstration in Maidan Square and Kiev in 2013. During the subsequent months of mass protests known as the Revolution of Dignity, several thousand volunteers provided round the clock legal and other aid to persecuted people throughout the country. Since the beginning of Russian military aggression that soon followed in 2014, Euromaidan SOS has monitored political persecution in occupied Crimea and documented war crimes and crimes against humanity during the hybrid war in the Donbas.
Most recently, after Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, Ms. Matviichuk collaborated with many partners to create the Tribunal for Putin, an ongoing initiative to document international crimes under the Rome statute of the International Criminal Court in all regions of Ukraine that have been targeted by Russian attacks. And to date, they've recorded, I believe, such crimes in the thousands.
For her visionary and committed leadership, Ms. Matviichuk has received many international recognitions. Last year, Financial Times recognized her as one of the 25 most influential women in the world. Influential how? The battle she is fighting for a democratic Ukraine is as critical as any ground battle being fought in the current war. Critical not just for the future of her country, but for a world in need of a more just international order.
Please join me in welcoming Oleksandra Matviichuk.
Oleksandra Matviichuk:
It's a huge honor for me to be here, and please excuse me for my quiet voice. I have almost lost it, but it's not the worst challenge which we face in Ukraine today.
I'm a human rights defender, a human rights lawyer, and I have been applying the law to defend people in human indignity for many years. At present, I and other Ukrainian human rights colleagues are doing our job in a circumstances when the law doesn't work. Russian troops deliberately shell residential buildings, schools, churches, hospitals. Attack evacuation corridors, manage filtration camps system organized forcible deportations, commit murders, tortures, rape, abductions, and other kind of offenses against civilians. And the entire UN system couldn't stop such Russian atrocities. But I know from my own experience, when you can't rely upon on legal instrument, on international system of peace and security or on responsible political decisions, you still can always rely upon on people. So I would like to use this minutes to share several lessons learned from my own experience.
Nine years ago, Ukrainian people stood up their voice against authoritarian and corrupt Ukrainian government, which stopped the integration process because of demand of Russia. And millions of people peacefully protested, faced with large scale persecutions. In response, I, together with my team, created a civil initiative [inaudible 00:05:46], and we brought up several thousands of volunteers throughout the country. We worked 24 hour a day to provide legal assistance to persecuted protestors. And every day, hundreds of people who were bitten, arrested, tortured, accused and fabricated criminal or administrative charges, passed through our care. It was a time when we face against the whole state machine, they want to liquidate the peaceful protest, even physically. And the paramilitary group [inaudible 00:06:27] cooperated with prosecutors. [inaudible 00:06:30] cooperated with courts. The former president, government, and majority of parliament were against people. So it was very easy to say, "But what can I do in such circumstances when the law doesn't work?"
But because our volunteers, our lawyers fight very honestly for each person, for each procedures measures, we suddenly start to work not on the legal, but on symbolical level. Every people on my down the time knows that there is no guarantee. You can be beaten, you can be arrested, you can be even killed. But, there are people who will fight for you, who will never left you alone, who will do whatever they want to help you and your family. And this understanding provide the courage people to overcome the fear and to continue their struggle.
So, my first lessons learned from this experience of nine years ago is that sometimes, people who are fighting for freedom and human dignity are faced with enormous challenges. And their efforts seem has no sense because of the enormous opposing power, but we have to continue our fight honestly. And the result, even unexpectedly, will be achieved.
When authoritarian regime collapsed due to Revolution of Dignity, Ukraine obtained a chance for the quick democratic transformation. And in order to stop us on this way, Putin started this war of aggression. He occupied Crimea and part of Lugansk and Danette's regions. And last year, Putin extended this war to the large scale invasion. Why I remind that this war started not in February 2022, but in February 2014. Because we have to understand the roots of this war. Putin is not afraid of NATO. Putin is afraid of the idea of freedom, which came closer to Russian borders.
So we was the first human rights organization who sent mobile groups to document our crimes in Crimea and eastern part of Ukraine in 2014. And we concentrated on the cases of illegal abduction, torture, sexual violence, and killing civilians in the occupied territories, as well as political motivated persecutions.
I personally interviewed hundreds of people who survived Russian captivity, and they told me horrible stories: how they were beaten, how they were raped, how they were smashed into wooden boxes, how their fingers were cut, their nails were turned away, their nails were drilled. I never forget how one woman told me how her eye was stuck out with a spoon.
So, it was horrible stories. And I started to feel frustration, because I sent numerous reports to UN, to Council of Europe, to OAC, to European Union. But nobody stopped this practice. And I know that in the same moment when I interviewed another survivor from Russian captivity, the same horrible things are going on with hundreds and hundreds of others. So I decided to change our methods. And it was a good reason for it.
In 2017, the Ukrainian film producer Oleg Sentsov, who was imprisoned in Crimea and sent to the unfabricated ground to the colony to far from region in Russian Federation [inaudible 00:11:04]. It's very cold there. He announced a hunger strike. He announced a hunger strike with demands to release not just him, but all Ukrainian political prisoners. And in order to make his voice tangible, I, together with my team, launched Global Oleg Sentsov Action.
We united people in 35 countries in the world, and the United States America was also actively participated. And we started this global campaign with simultaneous demonstrations in 35 capitols. But not just capitols joined to this peaceful demonstrations. In many countries, different cities organized their own protests just to visualize this problem. And this put the question of Ukrainian political prisoners in a top priority of international agenda. And I remember how in one minute we received resolution of European Parliament, resolution of Council of Europe, the attention of the top officials from UN. And to make the long story short, because this campaign lasting for one year, in the fact that Oleg Sentsov and several dozens others Ukrainian political prisoners returned home, it's a huge input of thousands of thousands of people in different countries of the world who joined to this collective action.
But, what my second lessons learned from this story, this action started with one concrete thing, with Oleg Sentsov's decision to put his life in danger, but not to compromise with a Russian regime. Oleg Sentsov has no other instruments how to influence the situation. He was in prison, far from region of Russia. There is no connection with them. Even his lawyer very oftenly was refused to visit his client there. But, he has his words and his own position.
And my second lessons learned is that even when you have no other tools but just your words and your own position, you have to use it. It's extremely powerful tools to influence the situation and it can change the life of millions.
So, our third lessons learned started when the large scale invasion began. It was a hard time for lot of people in Ukraine. I decided to stay in Kyiv. I refused to relocate. And I remember how we celebrate each morning. We stand guard all night because we have no idea whether or not the Russian soldiers will appeared in the streets of our native city. And immediately when large scale invasion started, international organizations evacuated their personal, but ordinary people remained. And ordinary people started to do extraordinary things. It were ordinary people who took people out from the ruined cities. It were ordinary people who helped to survive under artillery fires. It were ordinary people who rescued people trapped into the rubbles of residential buildings. It were ordinary people who broke encirclement to provide humanitarian aid.
I would never wish any nation to go through our experience, because large scale war, it's horrible. But, these traumatic times provide us an opportunity to reveal the best in us. To be courageous, to fight for freedom, to make a difficult but right choices, and to help each others. Because now maybe like never before, we are acutely aware what does it mean to be human beings.
So, my third lessons learned is that ordinary people have much more power they can even imagine. And mass mobilization of ordinary people in different countries of the world can change their world history quicker than the UN intervention.
I title this speech, No Peace Without Justice. So I allow myself to the end to return why we are fighting for justice in this war, why it's so important.
I work directly with people who survived hell. And I know that besides and beyond that to restore their ruined lives, ruined visions of the future, these people need to restore their broken belief that rule of law is effective and justice is possible, even though delaying the time. Because what we are witness have no justification. There is no purpose for such Russian action. There is no purpose to force people go beyond the basement, to order them, to appoint several volunteers, and no purpose in shooting them.
There is no purpose to have a fun using the tanks, firing at people on the bicycles whose bodies lays scattered around the streets until liberation. There is no purpose in breaking someone's house, killing the owner and raping his wife next to her nine-year-old child. There is no purpose to shoot the 14-year-old boy in close range who was just playing with a ball in the yard. And there is no military necessity in doing this. Russians have done all these horrible things only because they could.
All this hell, which we now face in Ukraine, it's result of total impunity which Russia enjoyed for decades. In Chechnya, in Moldova, in Georgia, in Mali, in Syria, in Liber, in other countries of the world. And they have never been punished. They believe they can do whatever they want.
We must break the circle of impunity. We must demonstrate justice. Because this is not just a war between two states. This is a war between two systems, authoritarianism and democracy. And Putin, with this war, he tried to convince not just Ukrainian people that our choice for democracy and freedom, which we made nine years ago was wrong. He also attempts to convince the whole world that democracy, rule of law, and human rights are fake values, because they couldn't protect you during the war. We must respond something jointly to this claim, and that is why we are fighting for justice to demonstrate it vividly.
The war turned people into the numbers. I know it even from my own experience, because I started to speak more with numbers than with names. The scale of war crimes grow so large that it's become impossible to recognize all the stories. Only for first year of large scale invasion, we documented more than 39 thousands episodes of war crimes. And 39 thousands is a huge amount, but still a tip of iceberg.
But I will tell you one story. This is a story of woman which is named Svetlana. She lost her entire family when Russian rocket hit her building. And why I found this testimony so important that it showed that deaths of your beloved ones, it's horror. But witnessing the painful deaths of your beloved ones, it's a hell.
I will quote here. "I heard them dying. My husband was breathing, pushing as if he was trying to throw off the stove, but he couldn't. At some point, he just froze. Grandma and Jania died instantly. I heard Paulina, my daughter, crying. A moment later, she also fell silent. About son, my mother said that he called me several times, and then fell silent."
We have thousands of thousands such stories in our archives. And I start to ask myself for who do we document all these crimes for? Who will be able to provide justice for hundreds of thousands of victims of this war? And that is why now I am traveling in different countries, meeting with president, governmental officials, parliamentarians, and people who take decisions, and try to convince them that justice is universal value. And if justice is universal value, it has to become a universal service.
I understand it even more deeper. When I heard the wife of one murdered civilians on the trial, this was a trial devoted to the murder of 62-year-old civilian, Alexander Shalepof. He was murdered by Russian soldiers when large scale invasion started near his house. And this tragedy received a huge media attention, only because it was a first court trial. And his wife Katarina, during this trial, here told:
"My husband was an ordinary farmer, but he was my whole universe. And now I lost everything." And this is which drive me to fight for justice. Because we have to provide justice to all victims of this war, regardless who they are, their social positions, the type of crime they endured, and whether or not media or international organizations are interested in their case. Because the life of each person matters. And I know that in sharp political discussions about Russian war against Ukraine, we very often lost this human dimension.
And satisfy, I want also to focus what's going on on the occupied territories. Because when we heard the voices of some politicians that Ukraine has give up Ukrainian territories like part of Ukrainian territories to satisfy the Russian imperialistic appetites, I understand that these people don't know what does it mean? Peace. Because Ukrainians want peace much more than anyone else. But peace will not come when country which was invaded, stop fighting. It will be not a peace, it'll be occupation. And occupation is just another forms of the war.
People who live in the occupied territories, they have no tools how to protect their rights, their freedoms, their property, and their loved ones. The story of [inaudible 00:25:24] for example, he's a children writer. He wrote beautiful stories for children. An entire generation of Ukrainian children grow up on his book. During Russian occupation of Harkev region, he disappeared. His family hoped to the last that he's alive and like thousands of fathers, Ukrainian civilians, are in Russian captivity. But when Ukrainian army liberated Harkev region, we found torture chambers and mass graves with dead bodies of men, women, and children. And dead bodies of people whose hands were tied under their backs. And in the grave with Mark 319, it was a body of [inaudible 00:26:20].
I know his family. It's very difficult for them to accept the result of the identification. And I always ask myself, maybe if we were able to liberate Harkev region earlier, who knows? Maybe [inaudible 00:26:44], a beautiful children writer, will be still alive.
So in this war, we are fighting for freedom in all senses. For a freedom to be independent country, but not Russian colony. For a freedom to preserve our Ukrainian identity, and not to be forced to educate our children as Russians. And for a freedom to have our democratic choice. Just the chance to build a country where the rights of everybody are protected. Government is accountable, judiciary is independent, and police do not beat students who are peacefully demonstrating. And we are paying the ultimate price for this. We have no other option. If we stop fighting, there will be no more us.
So, I will finish the speech with very banal sentence that there are a lot of things in this world which have no limitation in national borders. Freedom is such things, justice is such things, and human solidarity is such things. So, please allow me to say my sincere gratitude to people in United States of America for your support and assistance in this dramatic time for Ukraine. Thank you.
Cathy Ciepiela:
So I mentioned at the beginning that we'll now have a Q&A, and we welcome anyone with a question to come down to one of the mics. There's one on that side and...
Speaker 3:
Please come here.
Catherine Ciepiela:
There's also a mic upstairs, I see. For those of you in the balcony.
Speaker 4:
Perhaps I can get the ball rolling. Thank you very much. That's a wonderful address and very, very moving. And I completely agree with you that it's a struggle between two systems. It's not just Ukraine itself. For context, I'm a judge from Singapore here for my son's commencement tomorrow. The question I had for you actually is how important do you think the actions of the International Criminal Court have been with the warrant of arrest for Vladimir Putin for the deportation of children from Ukraine into Russia? And perhaps as a follow-up to that, do you see the role of the ICC in the future as perhaps even more significant in the, it's the first time, after all, that we have seen a sitting head of state engaged currently in an armed conflict being subjected to a warrant of arrest, which strikes me as very significant.
Oleksandra Matviichuk:
Thank you for this question. You know that International Criminal Court issued the arrest warrants against Putin and his child commissioner Maria [inaudible 00:30:59] Delova for illegal deportation of Ukrainian children. Maybe I will allow myself also to tell a story what does it mean, this deportation, because we work with family from [inaudible 00:31:13], this family of three children and his father. He brought his three children by himself. And when Russians started to siege the city, he and his three children spent weeks and weeks in bomb shelters without food, water, electricity, and medical assistance. It was a very hard time. People heat the snow just to get water. And Russians don't allow international committee of Red Cross or Ukrainian authorities to evacuate civilians from the city.
But when they occupied the city as they started so-called evacuation. And in order to be transferred to Russian Federation, you have to pass filtration. And if you have pro-Ukranian empathy, you will not pass. And his father was arrested and imprisoned to filtration camp. And these three children appeared in Russia. And the process of forcible adoption started, regardless of the fact that they have a father which was arrested by Russians. This is a story with happy end, because he was suddenly released and the elder son find a way how to call him and get him known that you have five days to get to Russia to find us before these three children were separated to different Russian families. And he managed to did it.
And I found extremely important this decision of International Criminal Court. Yes, it's a first step in a long, long process, but it's ambitious claim that we will live in a world where rule of law dictate the rules of the game, not just countries with a strong military potential or nuclear weapons. And I think this symbolical meaning of this act look very powerful. Because look, the international system is broken. Now we are in situation when the permanent member of security council launched the war of aggression, commit horrible atrocities, and nobody can stop him. It's a real good example, when Secretary General [inaudible 00:33:59] and came to Kyiv to visit President Zelensky. The same day, Russian rocket hit residential buildings in Kyiv and killed in her own flat, our colleague, journalist [inaudible 00:34:12].
So this is a question which actualize with all the situation, how we, people who live in 21 century will protect a human being? Their lives, their freedoms, and their dignity. Can we rely upon on the law or just weapons matter? The answers to this question define not just Ukrainian, our common future. Because if we not be able to fix this problem, to restore international order, and to demonstrate justice, we will found ourself in the world, whilst military states with strong military potential will dictate the rules to the game to entire international community, and even forcibly change international recognized boarders. In such kind of the world, it'll be dangerous to leave anyone without any exception.
So I think that the activities of International Criminal Court is very important, and we have to develop the role of international criminal court, because it's a huge problem that they have no jurisdiction over the crime of aggression in situation Russian war against Ukraine. And this is not because of Putin, this is because of the non-willingness of state members of International Criminal Court which may compile a principle in such a way which limited international criminal courting is a jurisdiction. So it's also something which has to be changed in the future. Because we as a human beings, we have to have a guarantee how to protect our security, our human rights against our owns authoritarian regimes, if we are live in Iran. Or again the war when we live in Ukraine. And this is something which is our common task.
And when I speak about the necessity of cardinal reform of international system of peace and security, I always found like some situation when politicians, they have temptation to avoid solving a complex problem, like an illusion that this problem vanish somehow. But the truth is the problem never vanish. They become just more and more serious.
Speaker 5:
Hi. I'm a little raspy, too. Thank you so much for coming to our school. One thing that struck me from your talk was when you spoke about justice because a lot of the news coverage here in the cycle on Ukraine, and America's role is about weapon systems and aid monetary aid. I'm wondering what you would see as what you would hope to see from America and the global community as far as our role in supporting Ukraine and finding justice.
Oleksandra Matviichuk:
Good question. I will try to answer. With one photo which you can easily Google after this lecture, it's a photo was made not in Ukraine but it during Balkans War 30 years ago. On this photo the Serbian military kicked the elder woman who lay on the ground next to here. There is two others men in civilian clothes and there is a pool of blood near them. And when you look to this photo, you have an impression that all these civilians are killed. And this Serbian military just to keep the dead bodies.
Last year, the group of international journalists started the investigation of the story on this photo. And then they identify the Serbian military. They reveal that he had never been punished, he made a successful career as a DJ and he still performs in clubs and festivals. So what I want to say with this example is that we in 21 century have a digital tools which we can't dream 30 years ago. We have digital tools to restore what's happened, to identify perpetrators, to document war crimes. And like the work of [inaudible 00:39:21] and other such kind of organization convincingly prove that in order to do it, very often there is no necessity even to be on the ground. You can do it distantly with using open data.
So, now it's possibly to provide justice for all. We have a tools like a humankind. What we have a problem in our way of thinking. I will tell you two examples. First, when I tell that we have to fill this gap and to create a special tribunal on aggression because it's not a norm that international criminal court have no jurisdiction over the crime of aggression and no other body has such jurisdiction. So we have to fill this gap and create institutions.
The politicians answering me in the way, I understand that they still look to the world through the prism of Nuremberg trials. Let me remind you that last century, we as a humankind made an essential move to establish low injustice. And on Nuremberg trials, the Nazi were criminals, were tried, but after Nazi regime had collapsed. But we live in new century. We must move further. Justice must be independent of the magnitude of Putin's regime's power. We cannot wait. We must establish this tribunal now and hold Putin Luka Shanka. And other guilty in this crime accountable for what we have to wait, how and when this war will end.
And second problem is that when we speak about a huge amount of crimes, we speak about that sad fact that Ukrainian system is stuck. And international community tried to help us in different way. First, they sent us a lot of consultants. We are grateful. But when you have a car without petrol, you can hire the best driver in the world. You can hire [inaudible 00:41:42], but the car will not move.
In April last year when Russian troops were repealed from Kyiv region, France official [inaudible 00:41:55] visited Kyiv region and help Ukrainian legal enforcement bodies with identification of people in mass graves. And this was very essential, but it was temporarily. It was only in Kiev region, and it cover only one, essential but just one, part of the whole investigation.
When Russian troops were repealed from Harkev region, my colleague, the editor of one of the largest online media in Ukraine had to volunteer in the morgues. Not because he's expert in DNA, because they were nobody there.
So we need from the United States of America a strong voice in favor of creation of special tribunal and aggression without delay. For what we have to wait? We see the crime, we see the pain, we have to act. And second, we need a constant assistance on the ground. We need to qualified working hands. We need to create a model where national judges work together with international judges. National detectives, national investigators work together with international detectives and investigators to prove the war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide which Russian committed in Ukraine.
Speaker 6:
Thank you for your words and for your courage. I've been to Ukraine and I'm very familiar with the strength and character of the Ukrainian people and you represent them very, very well. I'm curious, what is the belief, and you can't speak for 45 million Ukrainians, but what is giving them hope and what is their belief about how this will end? Do they expect and aspire to full Russian withdrawal, or is it survival, recovery of past territories? But what is sustaining them and what is their belief system for a best case outcome?
Oleksandra Matviichuk:
You ask about the secret of Ukrainian resilience. And everybody ask this question, because even our partners, democratic governments, have failed when they estimated the potential of Ukrainian resilience. Let's be honest, it's not just Putin who was sure and confident that Kyiv will fall in three or four days. I know because I received dozens and dozens of call from my friend and colleagues in different countries and they begged me to evacuate. And I was very proud when in the same days when international partners provide Ukrainian president with evacuation, he answer, "No, thank you. I don't need evacuation, I need weapons."
So I think that one of parts of the answer is on that fact that when you analyze the potential of country to resist, you analyze first and foremost the potential of state institutions and people involve developed democracies. They rely upon and get used to rely upon on well-developed and effective state institutions.
For sure they have problems, but everything in comparison. Because when you live in Ukraine, you have no luxury to rely upon well-developed [inaudible 00:45:47] state institution because we nine years ago just start our path to build such kind of institutions. That is why when something existential happened, it's very natural for Ukrainians to rely upon themselves and bring responsibility to their own shoulders.
But what was even unexpected for me, it was witnessing a huge wave of solidarity across the country. When I say that people start to risk their life, literally risk their life to save others whom they never meet before. I know what I'm talking, I know hundreds of stories. One of them story of my friend, she's Ukrainian MP and her husband, civilian, he organized evacuation from one city sieged by Russians. And Russians don't provide people to evacuate they shell civilians cars with women and children. And they hit your husband with something so heavy that I was told they start to collect remains on the ground because there is no one body to the back. Your husband don't know people for whom he sacrificed his life. And this is which makes us stronger. When you see such kind of stories of ordinary people who do extraordinary things, it helps you to move on.
Yes, it's difficult time, but I think the secret of Ukrainian resilience is in this deep understanding that we are human beings. And there are a lot of things which we, before large scale invasion started, found important, but they're not important at all. And there is only several of things which really have value. Thank you.
Speaker 7:
I wonder if I could ask one, maybe it's two questions. So in the fall, in the midst of all this tragedy, the Center for Civil Liberties was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. And I wonder if you could share with us how you found out about that, where you were, what your reaction was? And then maybe a second question, which is when you're living through what you're living, does it actually mean anything?
Oleksandra Matviichuk:
I had no idea that we were nominated to the Nobel Peace Prize. We never dream about it, because we are human rights lawyers. We're not celebrities. And Nobel Peace Prize is feel like Christmas. So when I got this information, that organization which I created and had it for the 16 years, received the Nobel Peace Prize, I was on my way with luggage to the railway station in Warsaw to take a train to Kyiv, because there is no function in airport anymore in my country. And I have to take two trains to return home.
And first what I feel, it was a huge surprise. This was unexpectedly. It was a shock. "What? Nobel Peace Prize?" And second, it's a huge responsibility. Because for decades, the voice of human rights defenders from our part of the region wasn't heard, because we tell so much time that country which persecute their own journalist, jail their own activist, and disperse peaceful demonstration, such kind of country a threat not just to their own citizens, but to the entire region and entire world.
And Russia is a bright example. Because Russia persecuted civil society. Russia committed horrible war crimes in different countries. But well-developed democracies close their eyes. They continue to shake Putin's hand, they build gas line, they do business as usual with Russia. They forget that democracy, rule of law and human rights, are not something which is taken for granted. And I think that it's a huge challenge between people in well-developed democracies, because a lot of them inherited this values and this system. They have never fight for democracy, human rights, or rule of law with sacrificing their blood. And now I even look how they can very easily exchange freedom for economic benefit, for illusion of safety, or for their own comfort. Because they started to treat freedom like a possibility to make a choice between several cheeses in supermarket. But freedom is not which is given once and forever. We every day make a choice.
And that is why I will return to this feeling of responsibility, because we are very aware that victory of Ukraine is not just to repeal Russian troops from Ukraine and liberate Crimea and other part of our country. Victory for Ukraine's to succeed in democratic transition. It's to do our home lessons and to build the country where people are protected. And this means that even during the large scale invasion, we have to go on the way of democratization, that we have continued democratic reform. And to do democratic reform, it's very difficult, even a peaceful time. But it's extremely difficult during the war. So, wish us luck.
Catherine Ciepiela:
We have just one or two minutes if someone else would like to ask a quick question.
I don't know how comfortable you are speaking about yourself, Oleksandra, but I was wondering if you might say a word or two about what influenced you on your path. I mean, it's strikes me as not necessarily an obvious choice in 2007 to aspire to become an activist and a human rights lawyer. So I wondered if you might tell us a little about that.
Oleksandra Matviichuk:
When I was in school, I had a chance to get acquainted with Ukrainian dissidents, and the famous philosopher, writer, and dissident [inaudible 00:54:05] who spent years in Soviet gulag. I don't know why he started to take care about me. Maybe in modern language I can say that he was my mentor. And he ingrained me in the dissident circle. And suddenly, I reveal for myself very knowledgeable people. People who say what they think, who do what they say. People who fighting against the whole Soviet machine. Yes, we have no hope because we know that we are human beings and other efforts are modest, but we can't stay indifferent. Because it was about our human dignity. And this example inspired me so much that I decided to study law and to fight for justice.
But, I also have to add as, because I'm from poor family, I start to work very early. And I imagine my life, like they said, I will make a successful legal career in commercial field. And parallel, I will do something for society. And it was my plan.
But during [inaudible 00:55:38] regime, when former president start to build them very strict vertical and suppress any dissonance, the last straw for me was when Association of Ukrainian Banks organized press conference and criticized financial policy of state. The next day, a tax police came to a cessation of Ukrainian Banks and fired a false fine for millions, millions of [inaudible 00:56:09]. And it was a push for me to choose, that I have to make a choice. And I decided to stop my commercial career to concentrate it on defense of human rights.
And I have never regret about it. And I wish students in this audience always to do what their hearts tell them to do. I know that it's difficult. You can't imagine how my parents were disappointed. They don't understand my intent. But I do believe that you have to find your dedication in the life and fulfill it.
Catherine Ciepiela:
Thank you.